sentimiento religioso
sentimiento religioso
esta es una charla en Beyond Belief (conferencia atea, más que laica) dada por Neil deGrasse Tyson (reputado astrofísico ateo).
como comunicador está, en mi opinión, a un nivel similar a Sagan.
pongo el vídeo y la transcripción en inglés. más tarde la pondré en español.
si veis algún error en la transcripción, avisadme para corregirlo. gracias.
¿qué opináis de este "sentimiento religioso"?
TRANSCRIPCIÓN.
now
I said I only be 10 minutes, I´m sorry, Im taking, I´m taking a little longer, but I gotta get this off my chest.
So
So, now Im becoming a scentist. Im in college majoring in physics. I go to graduate school. Get the Phd. in astrophysics. It´s my life´s love. I´ve known this since I was a kid. I didn´t accidentaly land at the bronx science school of science.
I knew I wanna to become an astrophysicist not because I chose it.
In a way, the Universe chose me.
That first day, in the Hayden Planetarium, at age nine as a kid, and I looked up, and the lights dimmed, and the stars came out, and I was caught by the Universe.
I had no choice in the matter.
I became a student of the Universe with the ambition of one day being one of their participants in research on the frontier of cosmic discovery. And that ambition, that inculcation, stayed with me the whole time.
To the point where when you become an astrophisicist, when you become an scientist at all, here is what I´m putting back to you, because what we used to do, and I regretted a little bit, you would go on pilgrimages to mountains tops, because that´s where telescopes are.
and where is the mountain. the mountain is far away from any city. because cities have light and polution and other things that interfere with your views. so by construct the best telescopic observer sites are far removed from civilization.
Which means, it takes at least four modes of transportation to get there. The plane, the train, the bus, the all terrain vehicle.
Then you get to the mountain top.
and What you have to do next? Then you have to go nocturnal.
The day is now your night, and the night is your day.
And so, that´s part of the pilgrimage.
There is the effort of the travel, and then there is the effort of flipping your schedule and going nocturnal.
Then, there is the telescope itself. This conduit to the cosmos.
It´s a phisycal... It´s a tube! It´s a conduit!
And I sit there, and I reflect on it. My especialty was the center of the milky way galaxy, 30.000 light years away, and so I had my digital detectors, I got the telescope, It´s dark,
It´s just me on this mountain and the Universe, and I look up, and I just think to myself: They are fotons that have been travelling for 30.000 years, and I sort of snatching them from this journey, and planting them into my digital detector.
So, I feel bad for the fotons, and I think maybe they wanted to continue, but got in its way,
but then I say, NO...!
Those are probably happier fotons than the one that slammed into the mountain side. That would go on unanalyze, and will not, will not, contribute to the depth of our underestanding of the Universe.
But so, so, there´s no only the fact that I´m on the mountain top, there´s the knoledge, and the feeling, that I´m reaching out to the universe, with this methods and tools of science. And then, add to that, the sum of the twentyeth century knoledge about the origin of the chemical elements, something que chemists would not be able to answer, without the help of the astrophysicists.
You can´t go to the chemist in your high school chemistry class and say: where do this elements come from?
The teacher wouldn´t know, from within the domain of chemistry.
That was informed by astrophysics. We can trace the elements. They were forged in the center of stars, high mass stars, that when unstable, at the end of their lives, they exploded, scatered their rich contents across the galaxy. Sprinckled into gas clouds, and then collapsed and formed stars and planets and life.
And so, this ideas, this cosmic perspectives, this pilgrimage to the cosmos.
The people who says, "this makes me feel small, because I see the immensity of the cosmos". And I say, no, you´re not thinking about it the right way.
By the way, when we opened our facility, I got a leter from a psycologist, from the university of pensilvania. He´d seen our show, which is a zoom out from earth, and earth just shrinks to nothingness, and you go to the edge of the universe.
And he wrote me a letter and says, I specialize in the psycological effects, of...
How did he word it? excuse me. He said... ahhh...
Hello Dr. Tyson, I´m you know, Hagamenon, Im a psicologist specializing in the effects of things that make people feel insignificant.
I thought "menudo trabajo" (no se exactamente lo que dice, pero este es el sentido). Is that what you do for a living?
And he said, he said, needless to say your show was the greatest elicitor of feelings of smallnes I have ever seen. Would you allow me to conduct a survey on the people who visit your show?
And I thought to myself, there´s something wrong here,cause Why does he
feel small, but when I look up in the Universe I feel large. Then I realized, the problem was his ego was to large to begin with. He came to the problem thinking to high of who and what he was to begin with. Because then everything that hapenned in the show, destabilized his self image, whereas I know that the molecules in my body are traceable to fenomenon in the cosmos.
And that... and is our 15 pounds that figured this out.
There´s a kinship with the cosmos that resonates deeply with new age thinking, but I´m not apologetic about that. It´s what we find.
If whatever we find resonates with whoever, GO AHEAD, TAKE IT!
But what I wanna know, is, I want you...
We are in one of the greatest centers of neurophisiology, I want somebody to put electrodes on my head, and when I reflect on our kinship with the cosmos, when I do the calculation that shows that a 15 ton meteorite that we had in the center of the rose center for earth and space, an iron meteorite, when I do the calculations that shows that if you take all of the iron from the hemoglobin of the people in the trade state area in New York City, you can recover that much iron out of their blood, and realize that the iron from that meteorite and the iron from your blood have a common origin in the core of a star.
Tell me what part of my brain is lighting up. Because that excites me.
That makes me wanna grab people in the street, and say, "have you heard this".
That is no simply... As carl sagan said, you know, we are star stuff, but there is a more poetic and I thinck more accurate way to say it.
"IT´S QUITE LITERARY TRUE THAT WE ARE STAR DUST"
In the highest exalted way, wanting use that phrase.
And so, I feel, and I use words, eyes bask in the majesty of the cosmos.
I use words, compose senteces that sound like the sentences I hear out of people who have revelations of Jesus. Who go to, who go on their pilgrimages to mecca.
There´s some commonality, a feeling, I know it. Well, I don´t know it, I want someone to make the experiment, because, the day you do, if the same centers in my brain are excited by this cosmic thoughts as if where going on in the mind of a religious person. That´s something to know. That´s gonna be, really, an interesting finding.
Because, what that tells me as an educator, is "let me offer the universe to people", and those will start taking it in, and those will start achieving those feelings that they had before.
And I don´t so much care whether they abandon previous feelings, I´ve got an offering that keeps growing, that keeps becoming more majestic.
When the Hubble telescope was announced that we were gonna cancel, when was announced that we were gonna cancel the Hubble telescope, the greatest outcry to not do that, was not the astrophysicist, it wasn´t from within NASA, it was the public. Who was all over the "ap" pages and the talk shows. The public took ownership with the Hubble space telescope because the Universe was coming into their bedroom, into their living-room, onto their computer. They were participant on the frontier of discovery.
And as far as I can tell, if you let them know, that is no something that we are in the universe, but in fact, given the chemistry of it all and nucleophysics of it all, no only are we in the universe, the universe is in us.
And, I don´t know any deeper spiritual feeling than what that brings upon me.
I just wanna to leave you with those thoughts.
thank you
como comunicador está, en mi opinión, a un nivel similar a Sagan.
pongo el vídeo y la transcripción en inglés. más tarde la pondré en español.
si veis algún error en la transcripción, avisadme para corregirlo. gracias.
¿qué opináis de este "sentimiento religioso"?
TRANSCRIPCIÓN.
now
I said I only be 10 minutes, I´m sorry, Im taking, I´m taking a little longer, but I gotta get this off my chest.
So
So, now Im becoming a scentist. Im in college majoring in physics. I go to graduate school. Get the Phd. in astrophysics. It´s my life´s love. I´ve known this since I was a kid. I didn´t accidentaly land at the bronx science school of science.
I knew I wanna to become an astrophysicist not because I chose it.
In a way, the Universe chose me.
That first day, in the Hayden Planetarium, at age nine as a kid, and I looked up, and the lights dimmed, and the stars came out, and I was caught by the Universe.
I had no choice in the matter.
I became a student of the Universe with the ambition of one day being one of their participants in research on the frontier of cosmic discovery. And that ambition, that inculcation, stayed with me the whole time.
To the point where when you become an astrophisicist, when you become an scientist at all, here is what I´m putting back to you, because what we used to do, and I regretted a little bit, you would go on pilgrimages to mountains tops, because that´s where telescopes are.
and where is the mountain. the mountain is far away from any city. because cities have light and polution and other things that interfere with your views. so by construct the best telescopic observer sites are far removed from civilization.
Which means, it takes at least four modes of transportation to get there. The plane, the train, the bus, the all terrain vehicle.
Then you get to the mountain top.
and What you have to do next? Then you have to go nocturnal.
The day is now your night, and the night is your day.
And so, that´s part of the pilgrimage.
There is the effort of the travel, and then there is the effort of flipping your schedule and going nocturnal.
Then, there is the telescope itself. This conduit to the cosmos.
It´s a phisycal... It´s a tube! It´s a conduit!
And I sit there, and I reflect on it. My especialty was the center of the milky way galaxy, 30.000 light years away, and so I had my digital detectors, I got the telescope, It´s dark,
It´s just me on this mountain and the Universe, and I look up, and I just think to myself: They are fotons that have been travelling for 30.000 years, and I sort of snatching them from this journey, and planting them into my digital detector.
So, I feel bad for the fotons, and I think maybe they wanted to continue, but got in its way,
but then I say, NO...!
Those are probably happier fotons than the one that slammed into the mountain side. That would go on unanalyze, and will not, will not, contribute to the depth of our underestanding of the Universe.
But so, so, there´s no only the fact that I´m on the mountain top, there´s the knoledge, and the feeling, that I´m reaching out to the universe, with this methods and tools of science. And then, add to that, the sum of the twentyeth century knoledge about the origin of the chemical elements, something que chemists would not be able to answer, without the help of the astrophysicists.
You can´t go to the chemist in your high school chemistry class and say: where do this elements come from?
The teacher wouldn´t know, from within the domain of chemistry.
That was informed by astrophysics. We can trace the elements. They were forged in the center of stars, high mass stars, that when unstable, at the end of their lives, they exploded, scatered their rich contents across the galaxy. Sprinckled into gas clouds, and then collapsed and formed stars and planets and life.
And so, this ideas, this cosmic perspectives, this pilgrimage to the cosmos.
The people who says, "this makes me feel small, because I see the immensity of the cosmos". And I say, no, you´re not thinking about it the right way.
By the way, when we opened our facility, I got a leter from a psycologist, from the university of pensilvania. He´d seen our show, which is a zoom out from earth, and earth just shrinks to nothingness, and you go to the edge of the universe.
And he wrote me a letter and says, I specialize in the psycological effects, of...
How did he word it? excuse me. He said... ahhh...
Hello Dr. Tyson, I´m you know, Hagamenon, Im a psicologist specializing in the effects of things that make people feel insignificant.
I thought "menudo trabajo" (no se exactamente lo que dice, pero este es el sentido). Is that what you do for a living?
And he said, he said, needless to say your show was the greatest elicitor of feelings of smallnes I have ever seen. Would you allow me to conduct a survey on the people who visit your show?
And I thought to myself, there´s something wrong here,cause Why does he
feel small, but when I look up in the Universe I feel large. Then I realized, the problem was his ego was to large to begin with. He came to the problem thinking to high of who and what he was to begin with. Because then everything that hapenned in the show, destabilized his self image, whereas I know that the molecules in my body are traceable to fenomenon in the cosmos.
And that... and is our 15 pounds that figured this out.
There´s a kinship with the cosmos that resonates deeply with new age thinking, but I´m not apologetic about that. It´s what we find.
If whatever we find resonates with whoever, GO AHEAD, TAKE IT!
But what I wanna know, is, I want you...
We are in one of the greatest centers of neurophisiology, I want somebody to put electrodes on my head, and when I reflect on our kinship with the cosmos, when I do the calculation that shows that a 15 ton meteorite that we had in the center of the rose center for earth and space, an iron meteorite, when I do the calculations that shows that if you take all of the iron from the hemoglobin of the people in the trade state area in New York City, you can recover that much iron out of their blood, and realize that the iron from that meteorite and the iron from your blood have a common origin in the core of a star.
Tell me what part of my brain is lighting up. Because that excites me.
That makes me wanna grab people in the street, and say, "have you heard this".
That is no simply... As carl sagan said, you know, we are star stuff, but there is a more poetic and I thinck more accurate way to say it.
"IT´S QUITE LITERARY TRUE THAT WE ARE STAR DUST"
In the highest exalted way, wanting use that phrase.
And so, I feel, and I use words, eyes bask in the majesty of the cosmos.
I use words, compose senteces that sound like the sentences I hear out of people who have revelations of Jesus. Who go to, who go on their pilgrimages to mecca.
There´s some commonality, a feeling, I know it. Well, I don´t know it, I want someone to make the experiment, because, the day you do, if the same centers in my brain are excited by this cosmic thoughts as if where going on in the mind of a religious person. That´s something to know. That´s gonna be, really, an interesting finding.
Because, what that tells me as an educator, is "let me offer the universe to people", and those will start taking it in, and those will start achieving those feelings that they had before.
And I don´t so much care whether they abandon previous feelings, I´ve got an offering that keeps growing, that keeps becoming more majestic.
When the Hubble telescope was announced that we were gonna cancel, when was announced that we were gonna cancel the Hubble telescope, the greatest outcry to not do that, was not the astrophysicist, it wasn´t from within NASA, it was the public. Who was all over the "ap" pages and the talk shows. The public took ownership with the Hubble space telescope because the Universe was coming into their bedroom, into their living-room, onto their computer. They were participant on the frontier of discovery.
And as far as I can tell, if you let them know, that is no something that we are in the universe, but in fact, given the chemistry of it all and nucleophysics of it all, no only are we in the universe, the universe is in us.
And, I don´t know any deeper spiritual feeling than what that brings upon me.
I just wanna to leave you with those thoughts.
thank you
¿Quién de nosotros no se ha sacrificado ya a sí mismo, por su buena reputación?
Nietzsche
Nietzsche
Re: sentimiento religioso
Venga, va, ya que te has tomado la molestia de trascribirlo, vamos a traducir un trocito.
Bueno, ahí el principio. SI hay incorrecciones, mi fuerte no es la lengua de saquespire, de hecho, es uno de mis puntos flacos. Algo hice.Bueno, dije que sólo hablaría 10 minutos, lo siento, me está tomando un poco más de tiempo pero me estoy desahogando.
Me he convertido en un científico. Estoy especializándome en físicas. Hago un postgrado, consigo el título en astrofísicas. Es mi vocación. Lo he sabido desde que era un niño. No aterricé por accidente en el colegio de ciencias del bronx. Sabía que quería convertirme en un astrofísico aunque no lo elegí. En cierto sentido, el universo me escogió a mi.
Ese primer día, en el Planetarío Hayden, con 9 años, alcé la vista y la luz se atenuó y las estrellas salieron y fui atrapado por el universo.
No tuve opción. Me convertí en un estudiante del universo con la ambición de participar un día en la investigación de las fronteras del cosmos. Y esa ambición, esa firme idea, estuvo conmigo todo el tiempo.
Reza, pero no dejes de remar hacia la orilla - proverbio ruso
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Re: sentimiento religioso
joe. que bonito roget.roget escribió:Bueno, dije que sólo hablaría 10 minutos, lo siento, me está tomando un poco más de tiempo pero me estoy desahogando.
Me he convertido en un científico. Estoy especializándome en físicas. Hago un postgrado, consigo el título en astrofísicas. Es mi vocación. Lo he sabido desde que era un niño. No aterricé por accidente en el colegio de ciencias del bronx. Sabía que quería convertirme en un astrofísico aunque no lo elegí. En cierto sentido, el universo me escogió a mi.
Ese primer día, en el Planetarío Hayden, con 9 años, alcé la vista y la luz se atenuó y las estrellas salieron y fui atrapado por el universo.
No tuve opción. Me convertí en un estudiante del universo con la ambición de participar un día en la investigación de las fronteras del cosmos. Y esa ambición, esa firme idea, estuvo conmigo todo el tiempo.
no sabía que fueses astrofísica
que calladito te lo tenías...
¿Quién de nosotros no se ha sacrificado ya a sí mismo, por su buena reputación?
Nietzsche
Nietzsche
Re: sentimiento religioso
ufffffffffffffffff, me da una pereza explicártelo, sólo de leer lo que acabas de escribir me cansa
Reza, pero no dejes de remar hacia la orilla - proverbio ruso
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Re: sentimiento religioso
tranquila, relájate
pero que no se te olvide respirar, que luego vienen los sustos
pero que no se te olvide respirar, que luego vienen los sustos
¿Quién de nosotros no se ha sacrificado ya a sí mismo, por su buena reputación?
Nietzsche
Nietzsche
Re: sentimiento religioso
es la calor, gracias por recordármelo, me estaba poniendo azul
Reza, pero no dejes de remar hacia la orilla - proverbio ruso
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Mucha ciencia, progreso y vanguardia cultural, pero si no conviene, se pone en tela de juicio
Re: sentimiento religioso
primera parte de la traducción
segunda parte de la traducciónroget escribió:Bueno, dije que sólo hablaría 10 minutos, lo siento, me está tomando un poco más de tiempo pero me estoy desahogando.
Me he convertido en un científico. Estoy especializándome en físicas. Hago un postgrado, consigo el título en astrofísicas. Es mi vocación. Lo he sabido desde que era un niño. No aterricé por accidente en el colegio de ciencias del bronx. Sabía que quería convertirme en un astrofísico aunque no lo elegí. En cierto sentido, el universo me escogió a mi.
Ese primer día, en el Planetarío Hayden, con 9 años, alcé la vista y la luz se atenuó y las estrellas salieron y fui atrapado por el universo.
No tuve opción. Me convertí en un estudiante del universo con la ambición de participar un día en la investigación de las fronteras del cosmos. Y esa ambición, esa firme idea, estuvo conmigo todo el tiempo.
otro rato más y mejor...Hagamenon escribió: incluso cuando me convertí en astrofísico, cuando me convertí simplemente en un científico. Est es lo que quiero deciros. Porque lo que solíamos hacer, y a mi me molestaba un poquito, era ir en peregrinación a cimas de montañas, porque es allí donde están los telescopios.
¿y donde está la montaña? Lo montaña está a gran distancia de cualquier ciudad. Porque las ciudades tienen y polución y otras cosas que interfieren con la observación. Así que los mejores lugares para situar los observatorios telescópicos está muy lejos de la civilización.
Esto significa que para llegar hay que coger al menos cuatro tipos de transportes. El avión, el tren, el autobús, el todo terreno.
Entonces llegas a la cima de la montaña.
¿y qué haces a continuación? Entonces te vuelves nocturno.
El día es tu noche, y la noche es tu día.
Esta es la parte de la peregrinación. Esta la dureza del viaje y la inversión de tu horario una vez que llegas.
Luego está el telescopio también. Este conducto al cosmos. Es algo físico,... Es un tubo, es un conducto.
Y me siento allí, y pienso sobre ello
Mi especialidad era el centro de la Vía Láctea, a 30.000 años luz de distancia.
Así que estoy allí, con mis detectores digitales, y el telescopio, y todo está oscuro.
Estamos en esta montaña, solos yo y el Universo, y miro hacia arriba, y me digo a mi mismo: Son fotones que han estado viajando durante 30.000 años, y ahora yo estoy secuestrándolos de su camino, e incrustándolos en mi detector digital.
Así que me siento mal por los fotones, y pienso que quizás ellos querían continuar, pero entonces digo, NO...!
Estos son probablemente mas felices que los que chocaron con la falda de la montaña, que nunca serán analizados, y no contribuirán a profundizar nuestra comprensión del universo.
Pero no se trata simplemente del hecho de estar en la cima de la montaña, es que sé y siento que me acerco al universo con estos métodos y herramientas de la ciencia.
Añade a eso la suma de todo el conocimieto sobre el origen de los elementos de la tabla periódica adquirido en el siglo XX, algo que los químicos no serían capaces de responder sin la ayuda de los astrofísicos.
¿Quién de nosotros no se ha sacrificado ya a sí mismo, por su buena reputación?
Nietzsche
Nietzsche